Real Talk Podcast: Overcoming Trauma & Finding Hope with Steven from Healing Roots on up

A candid conversation on mental health, trauma recovery, and the power of therapy in finding hope, with insights on men’s mental health.

I was a scared little boy in a grown man’s body, but I couldn’t let anyone see that. Therapy helped me uncover my emotional healing and find hope.”
– Steven

 

Introduction:
In this powerful episode of Real Talk, Becky Stone sits down with Steven from Healing Roots healingrootsonupto discuss his inspiring journey through trauma recovery, overcoming suicidal ideation, and finding hope through therapy. Steven shares his experience with toxic shame, emotional healing, and men’s mental health, exploring how cognitive processing therapy, EMDR, and mindfulness changed his life. Whether you’re dealing with trauma or seeking mental health support, this conversation is full of insights.

How Toxic Shame Impacts Mental Health

Show Notes:

Introduction to Steven and his background (0:00 – 1:30)

Becky. Welcome to Real Talk. My name is Becky stone, and I’m a qualified counsellor. This is a space where we can remove all the filters dive into conversations that matter. Let’s be honest. Life can feel like a roller coaster. These days. We all have moments where our brains feel like they’ve gone off script, whether it’s anxiety doing its thing, or ADHD having a five work party when you’re trying to focus, it’s time to stop tiptone around these topics and be authentic and honest. I hope to break the silence and smash the stigma together and make a difference today. I have got Steven from Healing Roots on art from Instagram to join me on our podcast,

 Steven’s Early Life and Military Service (0:00 – 5:00)

Speaker 2 0:45
It’s great to be here. I’m really excited about this. I’ve been looking forward to it, and been looking forward getting to know you and and sharing my story and hopefully giving some hope and inspiration to some of the people that follow you.

Speaker 1 0:59
And hopefully, it will make a little bit of difference, even if it’s just to one person,

Speaker 2 1:03
yes. I mean, even if it’s one person that’s that’s one more than none, right? So, yeah, this is exciting work we’re doing. I’m, I’m really proud to be sharing it with you. Oh,

Speaker 1 1:13
thank you. Would you like to give us a little bit of your background and introduce yourself, where you’ve come from and your journey? Yeah,

Speaker 2 1:22
you know, I look forward we’re probably going to hop into quite a bit of this during the interview, but I’ll give you all a quick, a quick synopsis of where I’ve come from and my journey. So I was born and raised in Queens, New York, here in the United States, and experienced high levels of abuse, neglect and bullying as a child. At the age of 17, I enlisted in the United States Navy and left New York City for the next seven years; I served my country as a culinary specialist. I was a cook, and I still cook today. Years later, after leaving the military, I worked full time in the security industry while earning my bachelor’s degree in business management, I held multiple leadership position and enjoyed a thriving career. However, back on May 23 2015 my life took a turn when I was involved in a near fatal motorcycle accident where I sustained a traumatic brain injury. The injury, compounded with unresolved mental health problems, led me into a really dark place. By 2016 I was suicidal and desperate. I remember being on the brink of ending my life. I admitted myself into a Veteran Affairs inpatient facility to get the help I needed. Despite nearly losing my life in the accident and nearly taking my own life a year later, I was determined to change the trajectory of my life and began seeking help. I started questioning why negative patterns, especially repeated failed relationship relationships, kept surfacing in my life. I have gone through multiple types of therapy, but the most significant ones were cognitive processing therapy, dialectical behavior therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, inner child. Work, arts, work, EMDR, brain spotting, and I’m most recently in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, where I’m learning more about mindfulness and creating space between myself and who I am and my thoughts and my emotions. I’ve also devoured countless YouTube videos, books and podcasts on these topics today. I’m the founder of healing roots on up, which is a platform created to raise awareness and help prevent and assist in the recovery of trauma by analyzing the roots of our pain on up, I also volunteer here in my in my local city. I’m a court appointed special advocate for abused and neglected children, and so that’s just a little bit about me, and I look forward to getting a little deeper into this podcast and sharing my story. So thank you for having me. You’re welcome.

Speaker 1 3:47
You’ve been through so much. What was it like growing up in New York City, especially dealing with the abuse and the neglect and the bullying at such a young age?

Speaker 2 3:58
Yeah, growing up in New York City is no walk in the park. I don’t know how many people watch some of the mafia movies that are out there, but it’s a it could be a pretty tough city to grow up in, and so I experienced a lot of bullying as a kid. It’s hard to tell, especially people that can’t see what I look like, but I grew up with very red hair, freckles, and I had very fair skin, but I was also Italian. My family members had really dark hair and hollow skin, and I thought for the longest time that I was adopted, and I never really felt like I fit in. And I had a father who he, himself, had experienced a lot of abuse in his childhood. And as we know, you know, generational trauma is real. So he he was pretty hard on me, physically, verbally, emotionally, and same thing with my mother. I love my mother. I have a wonderful relationship with her today, but she was just so disconnected. Impacted from her own emotions that she never even said the words, I love you until after I left for the military after the age of 18. Wow, that sounds really tough. That was incredibly tough, and that was something that sat in my subconscious mind for years and years. I had a big void. I didn’t even know what an abandonment wound was. I used to think it was when someone left you, you know, and literally left you as a child. But you can be abandoned even when someone is present. You know, just because someone’s physically present doesn’t mean you can’t be emotionally abandoned, and that’s what I experienced at a very deep level.

Speaker 1 5:38
When did you just a curious Christian, when did you sort of first notice that

Unknown Speaker 5:44
that abandoned was you quite young, like seven, eight,

Speaker 2 5:47 Steven discusses overcoming trauma and suicidal ideation (5:00 – 10:00)
I was, I was not. I was. I experienced life. I am now 49 years old. I went through most of my life completely unaware of the of what even abandonment was, or how it affected me, until I hit my 40s, so I walked around basically evolving into a full blown narcissist and completely unaware, no self awareness. Everyone else was the problem, and it was a tough way to live, a very tough way to live. Sounds

Speaker 1 6:23
really, really tough. And it sounds like also it’s a way that you kept yourself safe when you went into the military service. How old were you and did that have an impact on your mental health?

Speaker 2 6:37
Well, yeah, I would definitely say the military service had an impact on my mental health. I joined the military before I was even the age of 18, so my parents had a sign off consent releasing me to the United States Navy. That was in June of 1993 I didn’t turn 18 until August of 1993 and I left in november of 1993 and I went to boot camp. And it’s, it’s, it’s really ironic. I kind of went from being raised in somewhat of an abusive, neglectful, bullying type of environment, and wanted to get away from it, and thought going to the military and getting far away from it all would solve my problem, but little did I know, I went from the fryer into the frying pan, because the military is is no more nurturing and no more accepting than you know, they’re just it was this very harsh environment. You know, boot camp is very tough, and there’s a lot of people that were in the military because they also needed a way to get out of their conditions. So it was very traumatizing. So

Speaker 1 7:48
it’s not like the illusion and the the image that you have in your mind. It’s completely different.

Speaker 2 7:55
Yeah, I had this, this idea that I was going to get away from it all and all my problems, you know, as we learn later in life, you know, we can’t get away from ourselves when we’re the problem. And I carried myself into different environments, and I still experience the same problems. There was a lot of bullying in the military. There’s a lot of good things in the military. I got to visit the United Kingdom. I visited Plymouth for the 50th anniversary of D Day back in 1994 and it was a wonderful experience. I loved visiting England and and everyone. There was just wonderful people. So anyone listen to this? I did get an experience. I did get to meet some folks out there in England. And I look forward to going back. I want to travel next year, so hopefully I get to do that. So

Speaker 1 8:42
Oh, England’s an amazing place, but it sounds like for you, you enjoyed it over here.

Speaker 2 8:47
I loved it. I loved it. I loved the whole ambiance. I loved how you all drive on the opposite side of the road than us. It was very confusing and scary. I’m like, this is this is crazy, but at the age of 18, it was just a whole new world, and I just I ate it up so it wasn’t all bad. And I don’t think there’s anything that’s really all bad in life, especially when we could find some of the good things to reflect on.

Speaker 1 9:13
It sounds like a bit of a learning curve. I have a bit of a saying that when you end up with lots of bad things and things that are quite traumatic, they end up becoming a bit of a treasure, and they’re things that you just learn and you grow with them, and they make you who you are, but it’s trying to draw that positive out.

Speaker 2 9:31
Yeah, I would agree with that 100% I mean, there’s a lot of things that I’ve went through that at the time was absolutely tough and absolutely trying to get through. But I look back on those now, and every one of them were a treasure. Every one of them had gold inside of them, but I had to go back and find the gold that was in those in those events,

Speaker 1 9:56
that takes a lot of courage, capital. Was you in the military for, I

Unknown Speaker 10:02
guess, seven years?

The Impact of Trauma, Suicidal Ideation, and Therapy

Speaker 2 10:04
Um, yeah, it was I did. Well, that’s part of the thing I did four years. And typically what people do in the military is they want to make it a 20 year career. So I joined, and I was coming up on my first four year enlistment, and it was either get out or reenlist, and there was safety in reenlisting. I had a place to sleep, there was food to eat, there was clothes on my back. So I’m like, if I leave, you know what? Now, where do I go? I wasn’t even New York City anymore. I was in Virginia. So I made the decision to reenlist for another three years. And so at that point, I did. I developed further, but I decided that the military just wasn’t for me. I was very limited in growth and financially and as a human being. So I wanted something bigger. So I left.

Speaker 1 10:56
How did you there? 20 I’m not very good with dates. 2526 say that again, did

Unknown Speaker 11:01
you about 2526 when you left?

Speaker 2 11:04
When I left? Yeah, I was 25 years old. Yep, I was 25 also didn’t want to raise any kids while I was in the military. So that was something where I even today, I salute the people that are out there in service to their countries, that where children are being left behind. And you know, it’s it’s by no one’s fault, but children, there’s a consequence of that for children. I really, really feel for children, when their mothers or fathers have to leave to serve their countries, really

Speaker 1 11:39
hard, isn’t it? Because it’s that bit of saying goodbye. It’s like they’ve, from my understanding, is that they they’re grieving every time they’re saying goodbye, and every time they come back, and then they’re building themselves up to grieve and say goodbye again. It’s like this vicious circle,

Speaker 2 11:55
yeah, and that is, you know, it’s so hard on the other partner as well, because that partner has to be there with that child and, you know, provide comfort and safety. So yeah, the military can be a very difficult place to navigate for families. And I, my heart goes out to everyone that has served and that is serving today. So my my gratitude and thank you for people that are out there serving and defending their countries. So

Speaker 1 12:21
when you came out of the military, how did you that trans? Because I’ve worked with a few people who’ve been in the military, and that coming back out of the military and then going back into sort of normal, everyday life, without all of those boundaries, how was you

Speaker 2 12:39
I was all over the place. I was in a relationship, and at the time, my partner’s family was was in construction, and I needed a job, and I got in. I was doing construction. I was making pretty low wages at the time. I had no education beyond high school. So I was in a really tough spot. And I remember I left construction because it was back breaking work. It’s difficult work. And I went and applied for a job as a security officer. I was making $8.65 an hour. This is back in like 2002 which is, that’s US dollars. I think, I don’t know what it is for the UK. I want to say

Speaker 1 13:26
five or six pounds, but I could be completely wrong.

Speaker 2 13:29
I think you’re right. I think your pound is stronger than our dollar, so I think you’re probably right, at least that’s what I remember when I when I visited. So I got a job as security officer, started going to college for Business Administration, and within months, I don’t know, it just clicked. I went from security officer to supervisor to site supervisor to branch manager. And I was running, you know, the company here locally, for a multi million dollar company that was known worldwide, and I was running it for the area here. So I became very successful. And at least in terms of career, I was doing very well, financially, very connected in the community and business. So yeah, I grew very quickly.

Speaker 1 14:19
So for you actually to be able to come out the military, go and work very, very hard to get a good income and support your family. How when did the motorbike accident happen? Was it around this time, or was it a bit later in life? It

Speaker 2 14:36
was a little bit later. I spent about 13 years doing security. And after security, I went and I did another job. Was a general manager, and I was selling franchises. And then just soon after that, I just remember my my I have three children. My second daughter was born. She was eight days old, and. Was going to meet my buddy for a hamburger. My my my mom and dad had just left and were driving back to New York City. They were down here visiting me and my daughter, and I’m riding my motorcycle. I’m doing about, I don’t know, 5560 miles per hour going down the main road. And I remember looking up at the corner of my eye, and I saw a lady who was looking over her shoulder, and I was thinking myself, this lady’s about to come over, and when I did, I looked over my shoulder to see if I can merge out of the lane I was in, and then I pulled my head back forward, and before I knew it, the rear bumper of her car was hitting my front tire, and that was pretty much all I remember, um,

Unknown Speaker 15:45
very stuff, really scary. Yeah,

Steven’s Journey to Overcoming Toxic Shame Through Therapy

Overcoming Toxic Shame and Emotional Healing

Speaker 2 15:48

Therapy approaches discussed: CPT, EMDR, and mindfulness (15:00 – 20:00)
I just remember my heart pounding because I knew I was about to be in an accident, and I did not know if I was going to live or die. And that was all I remember. I, you know, probably flew through the air, you know, 2030, feet. When I landed, I think I landed on my head. I had a helmet on. It was only a half helmet, but It fractured my skull and broke just about every bone in my face. And I sustained a traumatic brain injury. I underwent surgery where they had to go up underneath my lip and put a titanium plate with over 20 screws in my face, and I nearly lost my life. And, oh, sorry,

Speaker 1 16:31
I didn’t mean to talk over you. Went through so much. Yeah,

Speaker 2 16:36
yeah. It, it was. It was not only traumatizing, you know, at least for me at the time, I think I was fortunate enough to pretty much be unconscious and not be aware of what was happening in the very beginning. But my my poor wife at the time, was just probably devastated. And, you know, my family was devastated. They’re thinking, you know, I think, you know, we just lost my husband, my my children’s father, my parents, my son. So everyone was like, you know, it was really, really bad. It was a really, really bad time for everyone,

Speaker 1 17:17
really stressful and really frightening as well, because it just like, as you spoken, my hands have gone cold. It’s like, wow, how quickly life can change from you going out to having a hamburger, meeting your gorgeous friend, to everything going upside down.

Speaker 2 17:35
Yeah, and then that was just, that was just the beginning of an incredible comeback. I won’t even say, come back, but I had to do so much work. I mean, they offered me speech therapy. You wouldn’t believe this. I actually went. I tried to go back to work two weeks later. Okay, wow. People are like, how, how did you try? In my mind is like I did not have a choice. I needed to try to provide for my family. I needed to get back at my feet. I didn’t think the brain injury was as bad as it was.

Unknown Speaker 18:11
And then I was

Speaker 2 18:14
I was sent to a neuropsychologist, where they really measured the effects of the brain injury, and lo and behold, I had a lot of issues that I just wasn’t aware of. I had a lot of memory issues, spatial learning and auditory learning was very limited, so I didn’t realize how much I had changed from that accident. So like, when I woke up, I’m like, Well, this is just me. I’m fine, and I’m trying to operate under the conditions that I was before the accident, not realizing the changes that had impacted me from the accident, and so I tried to go back to work. And the problem was I was with the company for so many years, and I was so consistent. And then that following year, I went through six different jobs.

Speaker 1 18:59
Wow, your brain. You tried to be in survival mode, didn’t you? And that wasn’t, you weren’t. It sounds like you wasn’t quite ready to accept everything that was changing. There was like a grieving process that you wasn’t ready for.

Speaker 2 19:15
No, I was not, I was not ready for. And I it’s, it’s hard to put it. I’m trying to think of an analogy of what it’s like, but it’s like you’re running you you slam into a brick wall, and then you just want to keep going, thinking, okay, I’m okay, I’m okay, I’m okay. And you’re trying to convince yourself okay, you’re okay, but you’re not, you know, and taking the time to realize that I wasn’t okay. Took me nearly a year before I was like, I’m not okay, I need help.

Speaker 1 19:49
You’re trying to cope. Wasn’t you sad? It sounds so scary, but also in that moment, you sound really determined, at the same time, together. Yeah,

Speaker 2 20:00
I had, I had a family, had children, and I think part of it was I felt like I had an image to uphold. I mean, you know, I feel like I need to show how tough I was as a man, you know, like

Speaker 1 20:14
I was gonna say, is it that? Is it that be strong. I’ve got to, I’ve got a man up. I’ve got to hold it together. I can’t show that weakness

Speaker 2 20:23
100% I was absolutely like, you know, this is what men do. You get hurt, you get up, you dust yourself off, and you keep going. And that only works for so long,

Speaker 1 20:36
yeah, and also, so, I mean, I hate that word, man up. I really think that we’re all human. We all have that vulnerable side. And actually vulnerability shows so much courage. So for you to say I need help, showed where you was and actually how much courage you were in that space of I need I need to move forward. I need some support.

Speaker 2 20:55
Yeah, yeah. And it was when I I decided that I need to look into other areas where I can find support and actually submit to being helped, which was very, very difficult. I had to go to, you know, government resources to try to help me survive and help my family survive, and it was very humbling to let go of what I thought was, what was for me, and my path in life and grieve, which I didn’t even realize that’s what I was doing, but accepting that I needed a change in life. So that’s yeah, that’s when I became from my accident, officially disabled. And, you know, so I was disabled from the VA in a certain capacity, and then the brain injury just compounded my mental health injuries that I had from that were diagnosed in the military, which ultimately put me on total disability.

Speaker 1 22:01
So there was, you’ve got two sides of the coin there, haven’t you? You’ve got a lot of loss and a lot of grieving, a lot of identity and a massive life change, and then you’ve also got relearning who you are as well.

Speaker 2 22:17
Yeah, I had, I had to relearn who I was. Honestly, I’m gonna be very vulnerable with you. I never really knew who I was. All I knew how to do was wear a mask and try to fit in wherever I went to gain acceptance. So I really didn’t know what it meant to learn who I was or who I wanted to be. And that came much later, and that took a lot of work to get there. So

Speaker 1 22:43
I I’m picking up. You must have been absolutely petrified inside, absolutely like trying to paddle along, but so, so scared, because I keep getting waves of anxiety as you’re talking. I was like, wow,

Speaker 2 22:57
yeah, I was a scared little boy in a grow man’s body, but I couldn’t let anyone see that. If I let anyone see that, that would make me weak, right? So that was what I was protecting. I was protecting that little inner boy inside of me. And

Speaker 1 23:14
are your survival skills, and I’m sure, if anyone’s listening, that they can relate to that, because it’s that part of trying to protect that little boy, that man up, but actually it all you want is support and somebody just to say, Come on, I’m going to help you, but you had to find that within yourself.

Speaker 2 23:34
I did. I did, but I didn’t know how to get it, you know? And I think the fact that I did not know what to do or how to get it. Even when I first started counseling, which was right around that time, I was struggling in my relationship. I was struggling with friends. I No one wanted to really be around me. I wasn’t I was just an angry, rage filled man.

Speaker 1 23:58
Is that where the alcohol and the disordered eating had kicked in. Yeah, I

Speaker 2 24:04
Well, I had always been, I’ve always struggled with addictions. Well, for me it was I was a smoker for many, many years. I did finally quit on January 1, 2016 but I was diagnosed as an episodic alcoholic, which was, I can go without drinking for a month or two, but then when I sat down to have a drink, it wasn’t just one. I would drink until I was

Speaker 1 24:30
obliviated, so you blanked out and escaped the world.

Speaker 2 24:34
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes there was blackouts, but a lot of times it was I just didn’t know how to stop. And yeah, I had some moments where I passed out and it was really ugly. And same thing with food. I I didn’t realize it, because we’re running on autopilot, and all we’re looking for is ways to make us feel better than, you know, than when we are. And so I would cope with food, and, you know, being a cook, and. Cooking lots of good food doesn’t help. Especially one of the things I love doing is I love serving people, so it gave me an excuse to make more delicious food to feed myself too.

Speaker 1 25:11
It’s all dopamine as well, though, isn’t it? I mean, food gives you such an amazing height, and if you’re making really good food, you’re providing for everybody. It’s really wholesome, and then you’ve also got that quick dopamine, but then you’ve also got the shame that goes around with food as well. When you’re consuming a lot, you’re it, you can’t talk. Now, is feeding that self loathing side? Had you put a lot of weight on around that?

Speaker 2 25:35 The impact of narcissism, toxic shame, and emotional healing (25:00 – 30:
I absolutely did, and I didn’t realize the cycle that I was caught in, you know, so I started gaining weight somewhere in after 2010 I started gaining a lot of weight. I was going on before my accident, I was going on business trips or business lunches, and I was buying lunches and I was eating, and there was just no mindfulness whatsoever to what I was doing. So I would reach for whatever. And then the accident happened, and then, my God, I just got out of control. I was eating more and more and more. And the problem is, every time I ate, I woke up the next morning, I got on the scale, and another pound came on, and then another pound came on, and the shame increased, and the shame increases, and then I’m feeling bad. So what do I want to do? I want to cope some more. So what do I do? I grab another bag of chips, I grab another box of cookies, and then it just keeps repeating itself, and you don’t realize you’re caught in a trap until you realize you’re caught in a trap. It’s

Speaker 1 26:37
pushing those feelings down as well, isn’t it you want it’s just that numbing. It’s the trance, like numbing that goes with food and it was your just sounds like it was a coping strategy, but so toxic at the same time.

Unknown Speaker 26:50
Yeah, it really was.

Speaker 2 26:54
There’s an area in here that I feel kind of vulnerable, but I want to share it, because I want to lift the stigma off of something. So in 2016 this was now almost a year after my accident. Okay, and I was working, and I was very big. I was over 300 pounds. I was not healthy. And, you know, for a guy who has sleep apnea, who’s on a CPAP machine, I had all the recipes to not live a long life. So I made the decision at the time to apply for weight loss surgery, and I went and did it. So there’s no shame in someone getting, you know, weight loss surgery, the problem that happened to me is that it never I never addressed any of my traumas.

Speaker 1 27:40
So find that the weight loss surgery was just masking all the stuff that was tucked behind, underneath. Well,

Speaker 2 27:47
yeah, it was, for me. I thought it was my saving grace, the only thing left. And I will tell you, I do not regret the decision to do that, because I don’t know if I would have had the strength to do it on my own at that time, so it was a saving grace, but I will tell you that it was very difficult, you know, losing the weight, still having a bit of body dysmorphia. I looked in the mirror, I still saw a guy that was very overweight, very unhealthy, and I could not see the change. When many people were coming up to me, I was getting attention from places that I wasn’t used to getting attention. And it really, it hit my ego, and so, yeah, I I was not addressing the root of all these issues. Did they

Speaker 1 28:33
give you therapy around when you had the surgery, or did you sort of have your assessment and then tick the box, and then you go forward for your surgery.

Speaker 2 28:45
Yeah. And I think that’s something that needs to be addressed in mental and in health care overall, is, yeah, I think they just checked the box. Um, I didn’t realize how much trauma I was carrying around with me. And, yeah, they checked the box, you know, I did a psyche bow, and I was, I was cleared, and I didn’t realize that there was a lot more to it. So either way, thankfully, I got the surgery and but the problem still remained. Even though I lost weight, I was still miserable, depressed, yeah, to the point that I was that I was suicidal, and it was, it was really tough.

Speaker 1 29:24
It sounds really, really tough. Was the suicidal idealization mixed in with the anger and the rage and the narcissism, yeah,

Speaker 2 29:34
one absolutely, um, and I will, I’ll say this, I did not know how narcissistic I was at that time. I didn’t realize all the rage and anger, and, you know, how I showed up in relationships, and how hurtful I could be. I didn’t realize where, you know, a lot of this was coming from, and I was. Was extremely emotionally immature. I was I experienced like I believe trauma, and correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s Arrested Development when you’re traumatized at a young age. So we develop up to the age, and then we experience a trauma, a significant trauma. So if that’s at the age of 12 or 13 years old, I believe we get emotionally stunted at that age. Yeah, to be 40 years old, but still have the mind of a 12 year old when it comes to dealing with, you know, and correct me if I’m wrong. No, no, you’re

Unknown Speaker 0:00
And then we experience a trauma, a significant trauma. So if that’s at the age of 12 or 13 years old, I believe we get emotionally stunted at that age, yeah, to be 40 years old, but still have the mind of a 12 year old when it comes to dealing with, you know, and correct me if I’m wrong. No, no, you’re absolutely spot on. It’s something that when I’ve got somebody in, and I tend to do a lifeline with people, and I naturally go back to the place, and I always say, where did you feel you got stuck? And nine times out of 10, you can pinpoint where the work needs to be done, and that’s where the healing seems to need to be growing. So for you, you got you pinpointed your age, and you knew where you how old you were when you was walking around in an adult’s body. Yeah, yeah, and,

Unknown Speaker 0:48
but I think

Unknown Speaker 0:51
I just remember it was 2016 I was I was failing miserably in my relationship. I was hurtful. I had the hardest time being present for my children,

Unknown Speaker 1:04
yeah, and I was at a point where I was losing everything, and it was extremely, extremely difficult. Even when I think back, I processed all of this. But even when I think back, I look back at that younger version of myself, and I feel so much for that younger person, because he was in so much pain. A lot of it was self induced, but it was out of a place of unawareness. And so,

Unknown Speaker 1:30
yeah, that that is what led me to a near miss with nearly taking my life in 2016 I

Unknown Speaker 1:37
was gonna

Unknown Speaker 1:41
say, had anyone picked up that you were because it just sounds like you screaming out for help, but wasn’t voicing it,

Unknown Speaker 1:51
yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:54
yeah. I couldn’t tell anybody how much pain I was in, because there’s this thing that I was conditioned with, that you just keep it inside so I couldn’t tell anyone truly how terrified I was, how terrified I was of being abandoned, how terrified I was of being alone. I couldn’t tell anyone at the time

Unknown Speaker 2:16
and and then one day, I just saw my life flashing before my eyes, saw people walking out of my life that I loved. And I’m like, I can’t do this anymore, and I remember it and and I will, I will preface this, if anyone’s listening to this, um, that if you’re struggling or, or you know, someone that’s struggling with suicide, you know, I would, I would caution you to not listen to maybe the next minute of this. And if you’re ever struggling in the United States,

Unknown Speaker 2:46
there is help here. There’s the life the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. It’s 988, and what is it again? In the UK, I believe it’s the Samaritans. Yeah, yeah, you can dial it’s 116123,

Unknown Speaker 3:01
and it’s free, and it’s 24/7, 24/7, helpline, and there’s also the UK’s Crisis Text Line. You can text shout to 85258,

Unknown Speaker 3:10
for free as well. But I kind of want to share my story, and I won’t get into too much detail,

Unknown Speaker 3:17
but I just remember it was one day I was home and I was, I felt completely hopeless and that there was no way out. And I remember going to my bedroom, and I was, I was, I was going to kill myself, I was going to end my life, and I had a gun. And I will tell you the only thing that stopped me, and I will, I will stop with that I had a gun. I’m not going to get into further detail, but I was, I was within milliseconds of ending my life. And I think the only thing that stopped me, the only thing that stopped me, and I believe it was divinely it was a divine intervention.

Unknown Speaker 3:56
Was a flash of my daughters that came into my mind,

Unknown Speaker 4:00
and I remember seeing their faces, and it made and it made me stop what I was doing. It made me realize I have to, I have to stay alive. You know, I found something to keep me going. I dropped to my knees. I called family members, and I said, I’m not well. I’m not well, and I don’t want to die.

Unknown Speaker 4:21
And I made a decision that day to go check in to the

Unknown Speaker 4:27
check into the VA, which is for military veterans the hospital, into inpatient. And I spent a week there, and

Unknown Speaker 4:37
I was on a lot of medication,

Unknown Speaker 4:41
and yeah, so if you’re struggling out there, and if you’ve ever been in that place, if this resonates with you, there is hope, even if it seems absolutely hopeless, sometimes you just gotta reach out and ask for help. And that’s one of the most vulnerable i.

Unknown Speaker 5:00
And one

Finding Hope Through Mindfulness and Therapy (35:00 – 40:00)

Unknown Speaker 5:01
of the most courageous things you can do for yourself and those that you love, it’s buying time, isn’t it? It’s taking minute by minute, day by day, and buying time, having things that

Unknown Speaker 5:15
like your daughters, having the things that you look forward to, the things that you have hope and connection in that’s what’s the grounding bit, if you’re thinking or feeling like that is trying to find that hope,

Unknown Speaker 5:27
yeah, and I, there are support groups out there too.

Unknown Speaker 5:33
When I was at my worst, I tried to find as many support groups as I could, because I want to feel like I want to feel heard. I want to see that there were other people out there that were struggling and then finding a way. And inch by inch, piece by piece, I start to find hope and but it it took some time, but it does happen. So do you think it took you to get but get back on your feet, because it is a process. It’s not like a magic wand. It it takes time. How long would you say it took?

Unknown Speaker 6:12
Well, I would say it did not happen overnight for me. Um, the process isn’t an overnight fix. The process is it’s a journey.

Unknown Speaker 6:23
But if you’ve been at that spot

Unknown Speaker 6:25
and you start taking the steps to crawl out of that hole one step at a time, you get stronger,

Unknown Speaker 6:33
you get braver, come more courageous, and you just keep building that self confidence that you can, you can do it. And for me, it took me, um, here it is, eight years later, and I occasionally have a suicidal ideation, which is just a thought, but it’s a fleeting thought now, and it just kind of flies by. But it took a lot of work. It took a lot of counselling. Um,

Unknown Speaker 7:02
yeah, and it just, it took self reflection. And I will share this with you, and I want to go ahead, is it okay? Can I plug someone that helped me? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 7:15
there’s a gentleman by the name of Tim Fletcher.

Unknown Speaker 7:19
He’s Canadian, and he is a complex PTSD expert,

Unknown Speaker 7:24 Mindfulness and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy for finding hope (35:00 – 40:00)
and he’s on YouTube, he’s on Instagram. But I remember this was probably 455, years ago or so, and I I heard the word shame so many times, but I really never knew what it was. And so I hear people say that word, but then I started to study the Word. I’m like, What is shame. And I literally Googled in YouTube the term what is shame. And this video came up by Tim Fletcher, and it started going down the list of not only what is shame, but the manifestation of what shame does to a human being, and I saw myself in the freaking mirror, and I said to myself that day, oh my god, I think I’m a narcissist, and I’m not qualified to diagnose myself, but I resembled all the traits of how a narcissist behaves, and it was gut wrenching. I wanted to like it was almost a physical, visceral reaction. I almost wanted to throw up from watching the video, because I could not believe what I was looking at, that I was seeing myself, and it was extremely hard. But I will tell you, that was my turning point, that things that led up to that, but that video was a day that said, not me. No more. I’m gonna change. I was gonna ask you, what was your turning point? Because I think everybody I know, through my own experience of anorexia, I had a turning point. And you, you have to have that moment. And it, it, it’s powerful, but it shifts you, but you have to get to that point. And for you, it sounds like identifying. I call it gut wrenching, pukey shame. It sort of sits in your heart and then comes out your belly, and you want it to get rid of it, and it’s, it’s such a sinking, heavy feeling. And we all have shame, but it can become so consuming and horrible. And because we don’t talk about shame enough, it manifests, and we hold on to it, and then we try and mask it. But for you to be able to watch that video, it just sounds like it’s so powerful

Unknown Speaker 9:33
it is. And what I’ll say about shame is that we could do things in our lives where we’re unaware and where we feel humiliated, or we feel ashamed of something we did, but the type of shame I’m talking about really refers to our my sense of worth. I literally felt like I was a piece of crap. I felt like I had no value and and I think a lot of people refer to it as toxic shame.

Unknown Speaker 10:00
Pain and toxic shame is just such deep rooted unworthy

Unknown Speaker 10:09
by facing it and utilizing,

Unknown Speaker 10:14
going to counseling, talking about it in a safe place, and a lot of people who’ve experienced trauma, especially complex. PTSD, the reason why, even myself included, we didn’t want to talk to anyone, because there was no one safe to talk to,

Unknown Speaker 10:31
right? So if we wanted to talk to someone and say, hey, you know what, I’m feeling scared, you got made fun of, right? So that’s why I think it’s so hard, even, even especially for men, for men to come and find someone where they feel safe and can open up and just say, You know what, I’m afraid. I’m not only afraid, I’m terrified, and that takes a lot of courage and but I know, I know there are men out there that can do it.

Unknown Speaker 10:59
And I think this stigmatism around mental health is becoming it’s we’re talking about it, and hence, why doing the podcast, I think it’s good to talk about what what happens. And I think breaking it down and communicating and having, I think the most important things like when people come to see me, I find it an absolute honor to be part of somebody’s world and to be trusted and to be for them to open up, and the courage it takes to make that first like, click on the website, the first connection of inquiring it, and it’s got to be the right therapist, and it sounds like you’ve had some really good therapy and connected with the right people, because I think you can’t get, like, you can’t get processed without the right person, the relationship the most important.

Unknown Speaker 11:47
Yes, I would 100% agree with that. I’ve had absolute amazing counselors, and I will tell you, not every counselor is is a good fit. I’ve had some counselors where I went so far, and then I’m like, No, I think I need to change, you know,

Unknown Speaker 12:05
because my growth, I wasn’t growing and so, yeah, I think it’s important to find a counselor that’s a good fit. Counselors are human beings too. There are counselors and psychologists out there that are very knowledgeable in this stuff, but haven’t even done the work themselves, which is scary. I’m really dangerous as well, because I’ve had hundreds of hours of therapy, and I think, I think that, Oh, I’m losing my voice. Hang on. Two seconds. Are you okay?

Unknown Speaker 12:38
I think it’s really important to have therapy so you’re aware of your own stuff. Is something that gets encouraged on the training and being self aware of what’s yours and what’s the client is so important. And I think to know how it feels to go into therapy and dig deep into your own staff takes so much courage. It really does. I think it’s very important for you know that therapists do do the work. I’ve had therapists that I just didn’t feel especially as I’ve grown into who I am today.

Unknown Speaker 13:13
I’ve been very cautious. I’ve been very fortunate, because not everybody here in the US has the kind of access as a disabled veteran to the type of therapy that I was able to receive. And that’s, you know, a topic for another conversation, which I wish mental health therapy was more accessible here in the US and throughout the world.

Unknown Speaker 13:35
But this is kind of why I do what I do, is I’ve received a ton of training, so to speak, training, counseling,

Unknown Speaker 13:45
but it’s, I think it’s important for me to do this and share what I’ve learned with others, for people that may not have the resources to get the therapy they need, so at least they can hear from somebody, somebody that has done it, and that it can be a resource to others. And I think, you know, the work that you’re doing, Becky, I think is so invaluable for the community out there in the UK and here in the US too. Thank you. Yeah, it’s therapy. I personally, like, there’s a lot of charities out there that do low cost counseling. We get we’ve got the NHS that can do short term therapy, which is brilliant. Long term therapy really helps you really dip into what you need, and it is part of a prayer, and it’s a commitment and an investment as well. And like for yourself, you outgrow your therapist, and then you change. You find your needs grow, and then you find another therapist that works. And I’m a bit like, you, I wish everybody could have therapy, because I just think it’s such a good thing. But I know that when people first come into therapy, especially they want me to fix them. And I’m like, I’m not here to fix you. My Harry Potter wand has snapped. It’s broken, it doesn’t work,

Unknown Speaker 14:56
and I couldn’t get a refund on it. And they’re like, but I want you to.

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Give me all the answers. I’m like you, and I always say and try and empower my clients, is, you know the answer. I have the tools in the toolbox to help you, and sometimes I don’t always get it right, because sometimes, like a screwdriver doesn’t always fit, but you’ve you’ve worked together with that relationship to find a way forward together. And I think when you’re in therapy, it is that journey, and having the therapist alongside you and the right one, you get some really good work out of it.

Unknown Speaker 15:29
Absolutely, yes, I agree. Therapy, therapists and coaches are really more of a guide. So you know, even when I’m talking with folks and I’m having conversations, some Someone may say, Hey, I’m having this problem. And then they pause, and they’re almost expecting me to give them the answer, but if I give you the answer, I’ve taken away your power. Yeah. So instead, as therapists and coaches, we want to question you, but we use questioning in a way to guide you so you can discover the answer for yourself, and that creates empowerment

Unknown Speaker 16:02
and resilience. I always say I’m like Nanny McPhee

Unknown Speaker 16:06
when you need me, I’m here, and when you don’t, I literally, I disappear into an extra gorgeous but it is I tried so hard to get my clients. They go weekly with me, then we go fortnightly, then we go monthly, and you get like my lady, young lady, yesterday I just went, was halfway through our session. I went, you don’t need me anymore, do you? And she went, No, I’m doing really well on my own. And I said, What would you like to do? She said, I’d like to come to an end. And I think that is so powerful because she’s got the tools, she’s got the resilience. She’s the one with the voice to say to me, I don’t need you anymore.

Unknown Speaker 16:45
So powerful. It is so powerful. And I was in counseling today with my therapist, and he’s, I have a psychologist as a therapist, and he’s, he’s been wonderful. He was the gentleman who who broke up, broke open the dam. So I was a man that didn’t cry. Crying was for people that were weak. And I just remember one day we were in counseling and and all of a sudden, you know, he’s leading me and leading me, and he’s creating space. I didn’t know what he was doing. It was scary. And I just wept all this, all these tears, and then I literally, I almost for the next year to year and a half. I’m not trying to scare anyone out there, but I cried almost on a daily basis. But what I was doing was purging all of the junk out of my life that I held back for so long. But that was when I started to feel human again. I started to feel my feelings, and I think that was the beginning of learning who I wanted to be and who I was,

Unknown Speaker 17:45
I’d say to all my clients, it’s like, it’s healthy. It’s like to cry, you’re washing away. Your body’s self regulating. It’s it’s like, it’s normal, you need to cry. It’s what we do as human beings. It isn’t a weakness. I think it’s a strength. I think it is a strength too. I think it’s something that we need to normalize. For men, there’s a lot of men that I think they think it’s it’s weak to cry, and fellas, if you can hear me, I’m telling you, if you’re holding back those tears and you don’t want to cry, you’re doing your body and your mind a disservice. Yeah, even if you have to go in a room and close door and lock the key, take some time to feel your feelings, and sometimes it’s hard, and sometimes people can’t people that have been really traumatized or really cut off from their feelings, and sometimes that might require a trained professional to help them

Unknown Speaker 18:36
do what my therapist did for me.

Unknown Speaker 18:39
So the trust you had with your therapist is amazing. My in that that was what I needed. I need to feel safe, and that is one of the biggest thing for trauma survivors, is it’s they need to feel safe that they can trust the person they’re talking to,

Unknown Speaker 18:58
and I trust them. And so that with that therapist, happened several years ago, and I’ve done a tremendous amount of healing since I learned to start feeling my feelings. That was probably the biggest amount of growth is when I learned to start feeling my feelings. I have an emotions wheel that I keep on my phone, so if I’m feeling something, I like to name it so it gives me a letter a little bit more clarity of the experience that I’m having, and it’s been very helpful. So download an emotional wheel. There’s plenty of them online, and put them. I was gonna say, that’s a good shout, because I’ve got tucked away, but I’ve got a metal one. And when my clients sort of come to me and say, Oh, I feel anger, and I’m like, so what you angry about and dunno. So then I say, right, okay, I’m going to reel off some of these words. And then I said, How many of these are you feeling? They’re like, loads of them. Because it’s anger is more complex than you think it’s going to be. Or like fear and shame will get mixed into that anger. It’s so complex. I.

Unknown Speaker 20:00
Absolutely anger. I think I’ve been told it’s a secondary emotion. So typically, angry, oftentimes there’s needs that are going unmet. There’s a lot of fear, shame, guilt. I mean, there’s so many different emotions that underlie anger. So if I feel angry, I often pause. I’m like, Okay, what’s going on beneath this anger, and then I’ll start to notice, okay, I’m afraid of what is about to happen in this situation, you know, or even my boundaries being violated, you know. Do you feel they’re like really good tools for life after recovery? These are tools that you’ll use for the rest of your life, but it won’t be so much of a conscious effort. It, it will be more of a it will it will sink into your subconscious and become automatic. And that’s the goal. Is we want the things that we’re learning,

Unknown Speaker 21:01
um, upfront, it’s going to be in our consciousness. And the more we practice it, and the more fluent we become with it, it really becomes automatic, and then that’s just a part of who we are, and that’s how we operate. So it takes work to do that and time, but the more you practice, the more this stuff gets ingrained, and again, the more you learn about yourself and the direction you want to go in your life. So achievable, isn’t it? And it’s it is life like being able you’ve been through so much, and you’ve grown, and you’re so humble, thank you, and really transparent to be able to help other people.

Unknown Speaker 21:42
Yeah, I think that’s I found my purpose, and I found I found my why, and this is why I do what I do. And I love talking to folks. I love meeting new people.

Unknown Speaker 21:55
I love sharing my story. And for those of you who may be saying, Oh, I can never share my story. I can never, I can now never tell people things I’ve done.

Unknown Speaker 22:05
Well, when you start to process those things and understand why you did those things, you will come to a place where you’ll get comfortable sharing that part of your past, because it’s not who you are. It’s something that you did, but it doesn’t define who you are, and that’s important to recognize the difference. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Is there anything you wanted to say before we’ve come to an end? Yeah, I think I want to just wrap it up by saying to everyone out there, men, women alike.

Unknown Speaker 22:40
This, this is, this is really important stuff that we’re talking about today. And I really my hope for each and every one of you, anyone that’s listening to this, even if it’s only one person, I want to encourage you today to keep moving forward, to keep your eye on a sense of hope. Wherever you can find that hope, cling on to it, and day by day, keep moving in a direction that is going to pull you out of the hole that you feel that you’re in, because it’s only a temporary hole, and it will pass as long as you commit to making a change within yourself.

Unknown Speaker 23:14
I love that.

Unknown Speaker 23:16
So thank you for joining me today, and,

Unknown Speaker 23:20
oh, sorry I’ve been muddled up. Thank you for joining me today in real talk, and remember that every conversation like this helps tear down the walls and build a community where everyone can feel safe and within themselves. Be kind to yourself. And if this resonates with you, please share it with somebody else. And thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

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